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View Full Version : Prado EX5 2L-T Crank Angle Sensor



CaribooPrado
02-28-2007, 01:21 AM
Hi all.... really need your help with this one:

I bought a Toyota LandCruiser Prado EX5 Turbo Diesel EFI LHD about a year and a half ago and had to change the engine. It's finally all done and the LC is up and running again. Really the only problem was caused by not being able to use the crank angle sensor. Therefore my questions for you:
1.) What exactly does the crank angle sensor do?
2.) Does effect the fuel injection pump?
3.) Is it for pollution control?

The engine is running really well, the new engine imported from Japan was in great condition, low millage, but the LC has less power. Its not really noticeable unless going uphill, almost seems like the turbo is kicking in a little late or not with the full boost. The check engine light is on (the little amber light) due to the crank angle sensor not being hooked up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I just can't seem to find the correct LC manual. The only one we have is not covering the EFI engine.

Turbo diesels
03-03-2007, 02:12 AM
Where is the crank angle sensor located? I have a 1990 Prado & have never seen that unit.

Is yours left hand drive? Mines right hand drive. Never seen a lefty except for land cruisers they imported to Canada that had different hood & front clip & not 4 door.
Gerald

CaribooPrado
03-03-2007, 02:38 AM
Hi Gerald;

My Prado is a right hand drive as well... 1990

Check out this link for the sensor position:
http://www.showmesome.info/hilux/info/manuals/1KZ-TE/

The picture below shows the sensor, just zip-tied, not in its original location (of course).

CaribooPrado
03-03-2007, 02:47 AM
Sorry, the link above doesn't get you to the correct page... here's the sensor location:

NiftyNev
03-03-2007, 06:00 AM
The 2L-TE fuel pump will never operate correctly without the Crank Position Sensor (and the crank to suit) and a Coolant Temp Sensor. Both are connected to the ECU to control the operation of the fuel pump.

Did you replace a 2L-TE engine with a 2L-T?

Nev

CaribooPrado
03-03-2007, 01:17 PM
Did you replace a 2L-TE engine with a 2L-T?

Nev

Yes, I did... EFI is hooked up and running, but not all that well...
how could I go about installing the sensor? Is it timed or synced?
I hope we'll get it to work. I'm driving it right now, anybody knows if that's a bad idea? Can I wreck the EFI without having the sensor hooked up?

Thanks so much for the help and replies!

DieselToys
03-03-2007, 02:41 PM
There should be a socket for it built into the block. You may have to remove the plug and then just install the CPS. You shoudnt have to set it up because it works off the crank as it rotates past the CPS it sends a signal. Basically an electromagnetic pickup. -Todd

CaribooPrado
03-03-2007, 02:51 PM
There should be a socket for it built into the block.

Thanks Todd, I'll check....

CaribooPrado
03-03-2007, 08:16 PM
There should be a socket for it built into the block. -Todd

I just can't find the location... the drawing of the sensor location in the manual isn't much help either, as its not very clear (might be better in the actual hardcover manual).

Any hint to where I should look for it would be great. I've googled for hours, but no pics of where the sensor should be.
By now I've read a lot about how the Crank Angle Sensor (or Crankshaft Position Sensor) works and I'm convinced that not having the sensor installed is my problem with the loss in power.

Thanks for all the advice! It's highly appreciated and I'm such a newbie...
Tom

Turbo diesels
03-04-2007, 12:57 AM
Mines the same truck, I could see where its located...



Did you just change the block & head & put the original pump & outside extras, AC Alt etc back on? If so.... Interesting..... You could consider putting a 2LT pump on....

It would be difficult to drill the Block & position that sensor exactly where it should be. It senses the crank therfore it would have to be very precicely mounted.

CaribooPrado
03-04-2007, 02:10 AM
So, if I understand you correct we've used the electronic fuel pump on the "wrong" 2L-T engine. I have the pump that came with the 2L-T orginally and I should use that one. That's why we can't locate the space for the crank angle sensor.

If we change the pump will the engine run or do we have to make adjustments to the wiring? In other words, will the computer know its non EFI? Does it matter?

I hope I can sort this out... this forum is great. I'm so far from any major centre its difficult to find someone specializing in this kind of engine and I'm just an electrician and not much of a mechanic (as you guys can tell by now).

The picture below shows the pump that came with the 2L-t, the second pic is the pump originally mounted to the 2L-TE now on the 2L-T

NiftyNev
03-04-2007, 09:13 AM
I believe the Crank Position Sensor works of a raised section on the Con Rod and a 2L-T will not have this unless it happened to get a 2L-TE crank/Con Rod during production changes.I don't have a good pic of this and can't find a diagram in the EPC but believe it is the part I have circled in red.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24/NiftyNev/CoolantSensor-1.jpg

As I stated before you will also need a Coolant Sensor. Pic of location below.http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24/NiftyNev/CoolantSensor.jpg


Nev

nick
03-04-2007, 11:57 AM
Even if you drilled the block to accept the sensor, the crank likely does not have the "cut" out to trigger the sensor. (I could be wrong) so your likely going to have to install the 2LT pump, dont forget you will have to hook a pressure signal Via vaccum tubing from the intake, to the top of the boost compositator and a vaccum signal(from the vaccum pump) to the lower portion of the boost comp, otherwise you will have very little power as well.
also I'm not sure if the connections are the same but dont forget the tac signal so your tac will work in the dash.
you will likely end up with lots of stuff that was hooked up to the 2lte pump that will be unplugged, is your truck an automatic?? if so there could be issues with a tps signal to tell the tranny when to shift.
and in the end you will have to remove the "check eng lite" as it will be on all the time.
Others who have worked on the 2lte can likely give you better answers than I can, but the stuff I mentioned are things that may or may not be an issue

NiftyNev
03-05-2007, 09:03 AM
There was a guy from Trinidad I think, who said his mechanic set up a crank sensor to get a signal from the power steering pulley. I have serious doubts this could ever work but he was sure it did. This was posted on the Aussie site. Here's the link.

http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6176&highlight=power+steering+pulley

Nev

CaribooPrado
03-05-2007, 01:25 PM
Thanks guys... I've double checked the location of the sensor using the pics above. Nothing.

Nick, its not an automatic, hopefully that will help.

Interesting thread about the sensor mounted so its getting a signal from the steering pulley, but at this point I will try using the non EFI pump. Hopefully I get it done this week. Will let you know how it works out...
Thanks, Tom

Turbo diesels
03-05-2007, 04:47 PM
No computer on the 5 speed, you should be able to get the original pump to work on this truck.

Gerald

nick
03-05-2007, 10:41 PM
Humm.. I think I'd try the power steering signal, according to the thread it worked, I'd give it a go myself, as from all I've read the 2LTE has more power. and it seems like a lot less work, I bet you could have it mounted in 30mins or less vice all the hassel to swap a pump.
if the powersteering pully is the same size as the harmonic ballancer then all will be OK if not you could cut a circle out of a sheet of metal and bolt it to the Power steering pulley to get the correct diameter(if its even an issue)

Turbo diesels
03-06-2007, 12:52 AM
where would the sensor get its true signal? Wouldn't it have to be within a few degrees of perfect to work? Is it set at 0 or 90 or 180 degrees of TDC, or could it have its own special place to be mouted since it is in the side of the block?

I guess you could try mounting it somewhere that gives it pulses & monitor the codes on the computer until it stops giving them & says it is all clear.

Good Luck,


Gerald

nick
03-06-2007, 01:17 AM
After reading the thread, I think (just a guess) is that the computer needs a signal so that it knows its running, I don't know if the pump timing is changed by the ECM or not. if the other fellow got a signal from a p steering pump, which is belt driven, I doubt the ECM needs a fixed (timed) signal. this would lead me to believe pump timing is mechanical and not controlled by the ECM, because unless the crank and P steer pulleys are exactly the same and the belt never slips, the timing would be changing on every revolution of the engine.

gibli
03-19-2007, 06:18 AM
The TDC (crank sensor) is a Pulse generating sensor : It generates a 5 Volt signal for the putor and above 1500 RPM is generating 5 V this is converted into a pulse signal internally by the putor which then relates it to the signal coming from the RPM sensor on top of an EFI pump, in short both work as RPM sensors one voltage type and the other pulse type. This data is then sent as signal for increasing or decreasing the amount of fuel to be delivered and and controlling the timing control valve.
If one of these sensors is missing the engine will work, but at lesser power. The Computer stores this info and even after the new sensor has been installed the Negative Ground from battery has to be disconnected for 5 minutes before the putor re-sets.

Gibli.

DieselToys
03-19-2007, 11:44 AM
The 5 speeds do in fact have a computer and a tps. Just in a different orientations since it is not having to share it with the transmission.

CaribooPrado
03-29-2007, 08:23 PM
Finally an update and a few more questions regarding my LC conversion from a
2LT-E to a 2LT.

I needed to replace the engine in my 1990 Prado EX5 and ordered a used engine from Japan. Received a wrong engine twice and after months of searching and waiting I've decided to go with the 2LT. At the time it seemed like a good idea and the only real problem was the missing hole for the Crank Angle Sensor (CAS) or Crankshaft Sensor.
After the conversion, the engine was running fine, but with limited power. As I've learned on this forum it was running in limp mode because of the CAS not giving a signal to the computer.
I've found a couple links and pictures of a set-up where the CAS is mounted so it's pointing to one of the pulleys.
A small piece of metal is triggering the signal or to be more precise, is producing the AC current.

I've found a welder and learned how to weld and started fabricating a bracket to hold the CAS in place. Welded a small, rectangular piece of metal to the pulley. The set-up pretty much matches the original set-up. The size of the metal trigger and the distance from the sensor to the metal piece. I've actually mounted two sensors - one is hooked up to the computer/engine. The other one is hooked up to an oscilloscope I've borrowed to see if it's producing a consistent wave. It is. The pulse width is 71 ms and its 13.3 Hz. The voltage is roughly 1.4V.
Resistance is 22.88 Ohms.

So here's the problem: It works, but not all the time. I start the engine up and no check engine light comes on. I can drive for a while in first or second gear. Full power, uphill the turbo kicks in and all is fine. Then the check engine light comes on and I can feel the engine running in safe mode with less power. Unless I slow right down the light stays on. So, its on and off roughly 50% and I can not find a rhythm to it. It doesn't really seem to be related to speed or anything else. Sometime the check-engine light comes on at 3000 RPM, sometimes sooner.
I've been playing and adjusting the setup for two days now and it does get better, but its not perfect.

What else can I try? Should the set-up work? Isn't the fact that it runs for a while without the check engine light a good indication? Is there anything else that could cause the problem?
I'm running out of time and really need my vehicle, any suggestion for a good mechanic who can solve my issue? I'm in the BC Interior but would travel to Kamloops, Vancouver even Calgary if I'd knew someone can get the LC running for me...

I'm attaching a few pics showing the CAS set-up.

Thanks for your help in the past with this! Sorry for the long post.

NiftyNev
03-30-2007, 08:25 AM
What fault code are you getting?

Nev

edgomal
03-30-2007, 08:46 AM
The bracket you made for your sensor, is it mounted on the frame or the engine?

nick
03-30-2007, 10:06 AM
The bracket you made for your sensor, is it mounted on the frame or the engine?

Good point if the engine loads up and twists in the mounts you could be loosing your signal, if the bracket is frame mounted, If engine mounted the everything will stay in alignment.

CaribooPrado
03-30-2007, 11:27 AM
Fault Code 12.

I did mount the bracket directly on the engine, with a couple of mounting points. It's really solid. The space between the sensor and the trigger on the pulley is very small, any movement would cause rubbing.

Andy87
03-30-2007, 12:41 PM
When you check the signal with the scope, is that just while sitting in your garage or something? Maybe it would be beneficial to get an inverter and take the oscilloscope along with you while driving, to see how the signal changes when the check engine light goes on.

CaribooPrado
03-30-2007, 03:59 PM
take the oscilloscope along with you while driving, to see how the signal changes when the check engine light goes on.

Great suggestion, I think I will try that this weekend. Get my wife to drive and I can monitor the oscilloscope. The way it's set up now with the two sensor it should be a fairly easy procedure and it will tell me if the sensor signal changes when the check engine light comes on.

gibli
03-31-2007, 11:45 AM
There are two sensors that require "shielded wires" from the sensor to the putor. Within a bunch of wires it somehow picks up voltages or fluctuates. The shield of the wire is grounded near the putor and left taped near the connector connecting the sensor, if you are not using this special wire maybe thats what is giving a malfunction signal.
Gibli.

CaribooPrado
03-31-2007, 05:43 PM
Thanks Gibli, I've thought of that and replaced the wiring with shielded wire a few days ago. Great suggestion.

BUT, I'm happy to report the LC is running excellent now. After 7 months and so many comments that it will never work with the EFI, it's running really good.
Yesterday I've modified the pulley with the sensor trigger, so that I can adjust it (turn it). Take a look at the picture, its pretty straight forward. Once I had that done it was a matter of trial and error until the check-engine light wouldn't come on. I will go for an extended test-drive now, but so far so good. Turbo kicks in, no check engine light at any speeds or RPM's.
I've got my favorite toy back in time for spring to explore the BC back country and get to work in 'style'. Yeah!

Thanks again for all your help, this forum is awesome. I've learned tons through this conversion process, from engine basics to welding...

cheers,
Tom:thanks:

NiftyNev
04-01-2007, 05:54 AM
Yesterday I've modified the pulley with the sensor trigger, so that I can adjust it (turn it). Take a look at the picture, its pretty straight forward. Once I had that done it was a matter of trial and error until the check-engine light wouldn't come on.

Can you let me know what position the crank is in when the sensor and piece on pulley are alligned. It would be good to know if the ideal position is when number one cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke or some other setting.

If this was determined then modifying a pulley would be as simple as mounting the metal piece in a spot to match the CAS mounting position. No need for the slots and experimenting then.

Nev

CaribooPrado
04-01-2007, 11:34 AM
Can you let me know what position the crank is in when the sensor and piece on pulley are alligned. It would be good to know if the ideal position is when number one cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke or some other setting.

If this was determined then modifying a pulley would be as simple as mounting the metal piece in a spot to match the CAS mounting position. No need for the slots and experimenting then.

Nev

Nev, I don't think its in TDC. I've tried that at first... there is a mark on the crank pully and I assume its the TDC mark, but I'm not 100% sure. I've tried mounting it so it's perfectly aligned with TDC and performance was bad. I then tried just before TDC and no improvement. It is now almost opposite that setting (again, that's assuming the V mark on the pulley is TDC). If there's a way to check the exact position in relation to the crankshaft, I would check for you. But how?. Let me know and I will check today? Oh, moving the pulley/trigger by just approx. 2 degrees makes a big difference. The check engine light comes on 50% and won't go off unless you come to almost a complete stop.

NiftyNev
04-02-2007, 02:34 AM
I'm fairly sure marks on the pully or harmonic balancer don't allign with the timing marks on crank sprocket. I have a new harmonic balancer and it has not got the marks in correct position. Only way to know for sure is remove the timing cover and check the timing marks or do by checking the cam which involves removing the rocker cover. It's been a while since I used this method but I think when number one is at TDC on compression stroke both valves on number four will be closed and movement either way will begin to open one or the other depending on rotation direction of the crank. Perhaps someone else can confirm this method is correct or otherwise.

Nev

CaribooPrado
04-02-2007, 03:35 AM
I'm fairly sure marks on the pully or harmonic balancer don't allign with the timing marks on crank sprocket.
Nev
OK, that would explain why adjusting it to those marks wouldn't get me anywhere... I had to just work it out by trial and error. I think the sensor should send a signal at TDC or just before it.

cjawahir
06-06-2007, 02:56 PM
hi guys, Im am also from Trinidad WI, what I did was install the efi pump, so all that was missing was the CRANK SENSOR signal.

I put the sensor facing the crank shaft pulley,
with the old 2lte engine take out the crank sensor turn the engine until the crankshaft counter weight show thruogh the hole off the crank sensor.
take note of the TDC mark position , now set the new engine crankshaft in the same position , then you can choose where you want to put the crank sensor and weld the matching spott on the pulley
works perfect.

charitar jawahir
Trinidad WI